Double Cabs Kill Payload.

"Berang" (berang) 09/18/2018 at 01:09 • Filed to: None

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Was surprised to see some big vehicles can carry very little weight.

My 1969 Saab has a payload capacity just shy of 1,300lbs. and yes, unlike some old American made wagons, it will carry it without dragging its ass on the ground.  I still find double cab pickups to be extremely odd. It’s almost more like having a car with a trunk you can’t use in the rain than it is like having a pickup with enough seating to be a car.

Gerry197 > Berang 09/18/2018 at 01:28

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Pickup trucks aren’t dump trucks, especially for full-size trucks, their primary job isn’t to hold a bunch of heavy stuff in the bed (hence the 5 ft boxes on many crew cabs).

Their primary strength is towing heavy objects, and today you have trucks in the 1500 size that can tow over 13,000 lbs.

However, you can easily spec a full-size that has a 1,500 hundred pound payload to over 3,000 lbs by checking off and on a few options.

Most people who buy these trucks want a big comfortable 4-door with room for 5 or 6 people that can occasional tow something, or sometimes not. But for the money, you really can’t find another vehicle with more utility/value. Factor in their strong resale regardless of fuel prices, and it’s really easy to see why they are such strong sellers.

Berang > Gerry197 09/18/2018 at 01:30

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Well you kind of have to tow if you can’t carry it.

atfsgeoff > Berang 09/18/2018 at 01:42

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I’m disappointed with my 2000 Volvo S70's stated payload capacity of 920 lbs. Been considering adding overload springs to increase that capacity a little bit, I don’t mind a slightly stiffer ride.

My old F-250 extended cab , on the other hand, has a payload of roughly 4,1 00 lbs. Even with six American-sized people in it @ 250lbs each, that’s still 2600lbs left for cargo in the bed.

Gerry197 > Berang 09/18/2018 at 01:42

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Yea, exactly right.

What do you need to carry that is more than 1,500 lbs within the cargo capacity of any vehicle?

I rather tow a horse trailer or boat than have it sit on top of my bed, does that make sense?

Plus, I suspect a big F150 loaded with 1300 lbs will probably handle it better than your 1969 Saab that you say is rated for 1300 lbs. I think modern federal standards for quoted payload capacity is probably more stringent today than your Saab rating from 1969, don’t you think?

Gerry197 > atfsgeoff 09/18/2018 at 01:46

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It’s a 1969, doubt the rating meets today’s standards.  

atfsgeoff > Berang 09/18/2018 at 01:56

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Another fun fact about modern payload capacities: My motorcycle has a rated payload of 442 lbs. A new Mazda Miata is rated for just 409.

Think about that.

Berang > Gerry197 09/18/2018 at 01:57

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Do you have a link to those standards? I’d be interested in reading them.

In any event, given Sweden was way ahead of the rest of the world on auto safety in the 1960s, it’s probably not as overstated as one might first imagine.

Berang > atfsgeoff 09/18/2018 at 02:03

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now I know why these guys ro de motorcycles instead of drove miatas

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > Berang 09/18/2018 at 02:10

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here’s a rather long but comprehensive reason that will explain why.
Mostly a combination of different era and different continent towing safety ratings, not an indicator of the trucks lack of ability.

https://jalopnik.com/tow-me-down-1609112611/1609771499

Gerry197 > Berang 09/18/2018 at 02:12

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No, just common sense that standards created in 1969 probably are not quite as tough as standards being used today.

Does that seem like logical reasoning?

What are the likely odds that it’s the opposite, that payload rating standards (which is tied to safety as well) was more stringent back in 1969 than today?

Also, you mention Sweden, is the payload rating on your car based solely on manufacturers data, or was it also keyed to Federal standards? In other words, is that 1300 lbs rating the same in every country that car was sold or did it vary based on the given countries guidelines?

Berang > beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard 09/18/2018 at 02:14

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I’m honestly not interested in any of that. My observation is that if you double the size of the cab, the seats, the glass, and everything that goes with it, the payload capacity ends up significantly reduced.

Berang > Gerry197 09/18/2018 at 02:20

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It’s all rather beside the point that doubling the number of doors, seats, etc, on a truck reduces its payload capacity.

Gerry197 > Berang 09/18/2018 at 02:49

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That’s kinda how it works for all vehicles when it comes to payload capacity isn’t it?   

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > Berang 09/18/2018 at 02:51

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I mean obviously, you’re adding more weight and forcing what payload you have to move further backwards away from the center of mass.

dual cabs are great for worksites though. You can load more workers up in one vehicle for the maccas run. and tonneau covers/canopies take care of the rain problem.

Tristan > Berang 09/18/2018 at 03:01

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Want to see something really pathetic? A GMT800 Suburban 2500 with an 8.1 liter and 4.10 gears has a 12,000 pound tow rating. A brand new Suburban 3500HD is rated to tow...

Wait for it...

3,500 pounds.

With a thirty. five. hundred. “heavy duty”. A one ton truck. 3,500 pounds.

Speculation is that because it’s a fleet-only model not for sale to the public, it’s spec’d to compensate for the armor plating and bullet proof stuff most will probably be outfitted with.

Berang > Gerry197 09/18/2018 at 03:01

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Sure. But I don’t think most people think that they’re going to use up most of their capacity simply seating four adults and taking some luggage.

CRider > Berang 09/18/2018 at 03:03

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http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/towing/1502-sae-j2807-tow-tests-the-standard/

Basically, you need to make sure your suspension can handle the weight of the load (including trailer tongue weight), you have the brakes to q uickly and reliably stop the trailer, the power to pull it up a mountain pass, the cooling system to keep things working in extreme heat, and the power to keep up with traffic on America’s freeways.

Your Saab has none of those things.

Berang > CRider 09/18/2018 at 03:22

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This article literally has nothing to do with anything in the OP, which mentions towing nowhere.

Gerry197 > Berang 09/18/2018 at 03:22

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But again, what exactly do you expect people to carry with them that will surpass 1,500 pounds payload? Which is usually the lowest capacity for most full-size trucks.

Are you saying that there isn’t enough capacity for these vehicles?

Someone who needed to actually haul more than 1,500 pounds can spec a truck to do that. But that’s not the majority, even for work trucks to need that kind of capacity.

My F150 tow rating of 8,500 lbs and a payload capacity of 1,780. I can tow my boat with 3,500 lbs to spare, and even loaded with 6 passengers, I can haul all our gear including a stand up jetski in the bed with plenty of capacity to spare.  

There is no vehicle on the planet currently for sale that isn’t a full-size truck that can do this. So what exactly is the issue with the payload rating?

CRider > Berang 09/18/2018 at 03:27

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“ Do you have a link to those standards? I’d be interested in reading them.”

You asked for it, I provided it. Payload and towing are directly related, and trucks are designed to carry very offset loads, with weight hanging off the hitch, unlike a car where the payload is usually centered. Hitch weight needs to be about 10% of the weight of a trailer, so your payload needs to be something you can lug around almost entirely  on the back axle.

Berang > Gerry197 09/18/2018 at 03:36

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Average adult weight in U.S. is about 180lbs. so you sit four average sized adults in that double cab taco. That leaves you about 400lbs to work with. 400lbs of camping gear is a lot of stuff for example . But 400lbs. of lawn or house stuff, isn’t really that much stuff. I don’t think most people realize this, their attitude is it’s a truck, of course it can carry whatever.

Berang > CRider 09/18/2018 at 03:41

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Article literally does not mention GVWR even once. In fact it doesn’t even use the word payload. It is specifically about towing.

I mean I’m interested in knowing what standards are used, but they’re not in that article.

Gerry197 > Berang 09/18/2018 at 03:48

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Sure, but that seems to be just enough for most people who would have that truck. What exactly do you expect them to haul around in that small 5 foot box in that crew cab Tacoma?

Also, when you are hauling “lawn stuff” of “house stuff” around, is it likely there are x4 180 lbs people in your vehicle?

How many scenarios do you suspect your average owner would actually go over their vehicles payload capacity?

Again, most trucks are not treated as “dump trucks”, they don’t typically carry super heavy objects. They are mostly for carrying passengers, some stuff in the bed, and towing.

I don’t typically hear of people complain they don’t have enough payload capacity. If it’s not an issue, maybe you need to realign your perception of truck payload capacity?

RT > Berang 09/18/2018 at 05:43

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Something tells me the driver and their Happy Meal order  will be the heaviest thing these trucks will ever carry.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > Berang 09/18/2018 at 06:44

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This may be a quirk of the American market as Australian dual cabs are typically smaller than their US cousins...but their payloads are often higher. Especially in base form. More than 800 kg is typical but can go as high as 950 kg. Anything lower than 750 kg is either targeted as premium or sport or recognised as useless.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Berang 09/18/2018 at 07:34

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Most modern trucks have a lower payload than my 90s minivan.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Gerry197 09/18/2018 at 07:35

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Likewise, I would never tow that kind of weight with a 1/2 ton, whether they “can” or not.

BigBlock440 > Berang 09/18/2018 at 07:46

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There’s a difference between “can” and “rated to”, but yeah, add more weight and that’ll eat into total payload. There’s only so much you can compensate without significant design/ride/etc. changes. Also, being 4 doors, it’s more passenger geared, so buyers would be less likely to accept a harsher ride.

As for using the trunk in the rain?

They don’t make sedans like this anymore, so people are buying the next closest thing.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 09/18/2018 at 08:40

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Most modern trucks seem to be geared toward towing now though...and those specs are ridiculous. And even if you want to argue about payload, most modern trucks still have a higher payload than the old ones. I mean the class names we use literally used to equate to their payload (1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, 1 ton, etc.) and a new 2018 Ram 1500 crew cab 4x4 has a payload of 1500lbs.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Berang 09/18/2018 at 08:46

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You Saab may be rated to handle 1300lbs but it sure is not going to handle 1300lbs better than any of those vehicles in your lead pic. I think payload ratings have probably changed since 1969...your Saab’s payload rating may be more along the lines of “how much can it hold before things start breaking” whereas modern payload ratings are probably more “how much can the vehicle safely control”

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > Gerry197 09/18/2018 at 09:02

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My only comment to your payload argument is that I’m constantly hitting the payload limit of my truck (2,000lbs) - and that’s just working around the house. My truck is always carrying dirt or gravel or I’m breaking up concrete or roof tiles or whatever.  Or I’m carrying a tractor or a couple of ATVs.  Honestly I think my next truck might be a 5 50 landscape dump based on how I use my truck. I can’t be that unusual, in that I want a truck to carry everything and avoid towing a trailer as much as possible.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Tristan 09/18/2018 at 09:25

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wut

Milky > atfsgeoff 09/18/2018 at 09:33

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How do you even know the payload for the new Miata?  

CobraJoe > Berang 09/18/2018 at 09:44

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Double cabs kill payload, but it still makes for a very useful vehicle.

My crew cab Titan can comfortably carry 5 adults or 2 adults plus 3 kids in bulky car seats, and the 1200 pound load rating is still enough to haul a yard of sand or gravel.

And unlike a minivan, bulky cargo does not infringe on passenger space. Not that long ago, I took the wife and kids with me to deliver a couch to my sister in law. No other vehicle on the road could do that without a trailer or without strapping the load to the roof.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 09/18/2018 at 10:09

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So a modern Ram 1500 has the same payload as a 20+ yo minivan? Color me unimpressed by that.

Even in towing, there’s only so much I would feel safe towing with a 1/2 ton pickup. It may be rated at 13,000lbs (or whatever), but you can bet your ass if I have to tow that much, I’m not buying a 1/2 ton to do it. It may be able to accelerate that load without issue, but stopping and steering something that weighs 2x the vehicle towing it is a scary thought no matter how many nannies there are to help it.

Not trying to be an ass, merely a funny observation.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 09/18/2018 at 10:22

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So a modern Ram 1500 has the same payload as a 20+ yo minivan?

Yes and no...I bet a new Ram handles that payload way better than a minivan. My ‘93 F150 with 1000lbs in the back is not confidence inspiring when it comes to braking...I don’t think a minivan from that era would be any better. Now new trucks with 1000lbs in the back still have excellent braking capability. I get where you’re coming from...but I think standards have improved so running at max payload is much safer these days.

atfsgeoff > Milky 09/18/2018 at 11:35

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GVWR - curb weight = payload capacity.

2789 - 2380 = 409 lbs.

Milky > atfsgeoff 09/18/2018 at 11:52

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I know what it is functionally.  Meant, how did you stumble across a Miata’s GVWR?  I’ve watched a lot of reviews and read a lot of articles.  No one is just throwing that number out there, lol.  

atfsgeoff > Milky 09/18/2018 at 12:08

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Google told me, but upon a few minutes more searching I found a dealer listing with that info:

https://www.cjwilsonmazdaofventura.com/new/Mazda/2018-Mazda-Mazda+MX-5+Miata-706e5ece0a0e0aea73690c8e7ba098a4.htm

GVWR: 2745. Which gives it even less payload capacity, unless that particular car weighs 2336 lbs unladen.

nermal > Berang 09/18/2018 at 19:52

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THE ONLY PAYLOAD IM WORRIED ABOUT IS THE ONE IMMA DELIVER TO UR GIRL, BRO!

Berang > BigBlock440 09/18/2018 at 20:52

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It’s true, the biggest car trunks today are in the 20 cubic foot territory, the smallest truck beds today are about 30 cubic feet. If you really need a giganto-huge trunk, those days are over.

Berang > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 09/18/2018 at 20:57

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This is an interesting point, because a minivan probably has a much lower center of gravity when loaded than most any truck. We can assume stopping distance would be better for a new vehicle than an old one, but would handling necessarily be ?

Berang > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 09/18/2018 at 21:05

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Interestingly the only info I was able to find on GVWR guidelines just talks about structural issues, and mentions nothing about braking or handling. And even then I couldn’t find anything about what margin of safety is acceptable. Ultimately the manufacturer decides the GVWR, but they’re supposed to apply criteria given to them when deciding this, and I have not yet been able to find anything very detailed about this.